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When was the last time you said no and felt good about it?  Seriously. When?

Welcome to That’s a Hard No, the podcast about saying no and setting boundaries so you can become the authentic and empowered you that this world needs.

On this podcast, we talk with interesting people about all the different ways we can and should say no, and why it’s so darned hard for most of us to do it. Tune in for inspiring conversations and concrete strategies to help you start saying no to what’s blocking you and make room for good things yet to come.

Meet Our Co-Hosts


Hi there! I’m Heather. I’m a 52-year-old mom of two adult children and a recent cancer survivor. I’m also a small business owner. I head Clever Girl Marketing, in Cleveland, Ohio.

I began focusing on saying no in January of 2019, when I declared it my “Year of No.” I made it my mission to say no at least once every day and learned to overcome fear, guilt, and a whole lot of things that were holding me back. I’m still working on it, but learning to say no has changed my life, and I’m telling everyone I can about it.

I’m so excited to co-host this podcast with my friend and colleague, Sarah Saunders, and can’t wait to talk with our guests and all of you as we learn how to take better care of ourselves and live our best lives.


Meet Our Co-Hosts

Sarah Saunders

Hello! I’m Sarah. I’m a 33-year-old mom of 4 boys, a wife, business owner, and a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor. I’m here to share not only what works in my daily life but also offer evidence-based strategies to get you closer to the personal and professional life you’ve always wanted.

I earned my bachelor’s degree in Psychology and Art Therapy from Indiana Wesleyan University, and my master’s degree in Marriage and Family Therapy from the University of Akron. With my practice, Purposeful Growth & Wellness, I help people of all ages and from all walks of life. I’m excited to talk with you and our guests about all the ways saying no can help us succeed and be our best selves.


sarah saunders ma lpcc | that's a hard no podcast

Latest Episodes


Hard No for the Holidays: Winging it and Embracing What Really Matters

December 22, 2022
Our podcast team discusses the importance of 'winging it', managing expectations, and embracing what really matters for the holidays.

Hard No for the Holidays: Grief During the ‘Happiest Time of the Year’

December 13, 2022
Beverly Soggs, MA, CCLS, discusses managing grief during difficult times of year, especially the holiday season.

Hard No for the Holidays: Showing Kindness to Families of Kids Who Struggle

December 6, 2022
Sarah Rintamaki and Karla Fitch, of Connecting For Kids, discuss the best ways to support families and children with other needs during the holiday season.


You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google, iHeart, and many other podcast platforms. Look for us and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.