When was the last time you said no and felt good about it?  Seriously. When?

Welcome to That’s a Hard No, the podcast about saying no and setting boundaries so you can become the authentic and empowered you that this world needs.

On this podcast, we talk with interesting people about all the different ways we can and should say no, and why it’s so darned hard for most of us to do it. Tune in for inspiring conversations and concrete strategies to help you start saying no to what’s blocking you and make room for good things yet to come.

Meet Our Co-Hosts


Hi there! I’m Heather. I’m a 51-year-old mom of two adult children and a recent cancer survivor. I’m also a small business owner. I head Clever Girl Marketing, in Cleveland, Ohio.

I began focusing on saying no in January of 2019, when I declared it my “Year of No.” I made it my mission to say no at least once every day and learned to overcome fear, guilt, and a whole lot of things that were holding me back. I’m still working on it, but learning to say no has changed my life, and I’m telling everyone I can about it.

I’m so excited to launch this podcast with my amazing co-host, Sarah Saunders, and can’t wait to talk with our guests and all of you as we learn how to take better care of ourselves and live our best lives.


Meet Our Co-Hosts

Sarah Saunders

Hello! I’m Sarah. I’m a 31-year-old mom of 3 boys, a wife, business owner, and a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor. I’m here to share not only what works in my daily life but also offer evidence-based strategies to get you closer to the personal and professional life you’ve always wanted.

I earned my bachelor’s degree in Psychology and Art Therapy from Indiana Wesleyan University, and my master’s degree in Marriage and Family Therapy from the University of Akron. With my practice, Purposeful Growth & Wellness, I help people of all ages and from all walks of life. I’m excited to talk with you and our guests about all the ways saying no can help us succeed and be our best selves.


sarah saunders ma lpcc | that's a hard no podcast

Podcast Episodes

hard no podcast season 1 sign-off

Season 1 Sign-Off

| Minisode, Season 1 | No Comments
In this minisode, we take a few minutes to catch up, reflect on what we've learned this season, and sign-off for the summer until our return for season 2.

Tony Legando

| Guest Interview, Season 1 | No Comments
In this episode, we talk with OHSFCA Hall of Fame coach, author, and motivational speaker, Tony Legando, about leadership, perseverance, and connection... and oh, so much more.

Tim Dorsey

| Guest Interview, Season 1 | No Comments
In this episode, we talk with Tim Dorsey about his battle with cancer, overcoming challenges, and how "doing the reps" and understanding that "everything is everything" can help shift your…

Changing Family Patterns

| Minisode, Season 1 | No Comments
In this minisode, we talk briefly about recognizing family patterns and setting boundaries to change those patterns.

Reanna & Davis Karousis

| Guest Interview, Season 1 | No Comments
In this episode, we talk about changing family dynamics by setting boundaries, finding connection as a couple when life is crazy, and accepting whatever season of life we find ourselves…

Regrets & Expectations

| Minisode, Season 1 | No Comments
In this episode, we talk about how to recognize when you're living the life others expect of you, instead of a life true to you.


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