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Episode 52 | January 30th, 2024

Ashley Jones talks about bullying throughout the judicial system, treating others fairly and with kindness and the importance of making space at the table for women.

Listen in as Ashley reminds women they belong at the table and how to handle bullying in the judicial system, injustices, and more.


Welcome to “That’s a Hard No”the podcast about learning to say no and set boundaries to live our best lives. 

Follow along with me as we learn from fellow strugglers and experts, so that you too can start saying no without feeling fear, guilt, or FOMO. 


Ashley Jones, attorney and litigator that has made it her firm’s mission to fight bullying at all levels throughout the judicial system. She is drawn to knowing right from wrong and ensuring that people are protected.
Key Takeaways

[00:05:37] Inequalities of the justice system

  • People of color vastly outnumber Caucasian people in terms of those being charged with a crime
  • A personal priority is treating those charged with a crime with respect and kindness first and foremost – actually listening
  • While our behavior individually doesn’t change the disparities in the numbers, but makes people feel heard
  • Recognizing hardships those who are not like us may have to deal with

“Yeah. I would love to dig into sort of the inequalities of the justice system and how people are bullied.”

[00:10:32] Institutionalized/Societal bullying

  • Expecting people of certain backgrounds to be considered guilty before even having the opportunity of a court session
  • Inequality seems to be escalating and in current times inappropriate treatment is given a pass

“The way you treat people can make a big difference about what their experience is while they’re there.”

[00:14:47] Police discretion and racial bias

  • Officers decide what gets charged, if they get charged
    • Opinion based decisions make lives more difficult for those of certain color and class
  • Judges have said derogatory comments about clients
    • Unrelated topics
    • Justice is priority

[00:19:01] The right to a trial

  •  Systems are required – should function in an organized fashion
  • Advising clients according to the judge and prosecutor rather than just the law
  • Accused are no longer seen as people
  • Criminal attorneys are often pushed to avoid court cases
    • Trial tax can effect your other cases

“Just be kind. Just not be terrible.”

[00:25:21] Bullying in a male-dominated field

  • Trying to brush many things off
    • Microaggressions can build
    • This is delivered from men and women
  • Let what they say or think be a reflection of them
  • Expectations surrounding gender
    • Not the lawyer
    • Commentary

[00:27:33] Gender bias in the workplace

  • Trying to provide an open and warm experience for women
  • Give warnings prior to experiences
  • We are a team, mentorship is a safe space to ask questions
    • Doing other things together outside work

[00:31:31] Confidence in Impersonation

  • Being confident is the most valuable trait
  • Knowing that you are in the right place and belong at this event/in this career despite being the only woman
    • Realizing as a woman you need to be at the table

“I belong here.”

[00:37:13] Bullying and high-stress jobs

  •  We have to advocate while also adjusting according to the courtroom
  • Breakdown all details, welcome packet with a definition of jargon they may hear during the judicial process
  • Realize we aren’t being looked at as closely as we believe
  • Being accessible
    • Give people a voice, help them feel empowered
Where to Find Ashley
Credits and Thanks
  • Many thanks to our friends and families (our “villagers”) for listening, and for your continued support.
  • That’s a Hard No is a production of Clever Girl Marketing
  • Marketing and Production Coordinator, Maura Del Rosario
  • Production Support, Evergreen Podcasts, Noah Foutz, Producer
  • New Rock Anthem Music: Written by Noah, and performed by his band, The Big Leagues
  • Videographer, Kae Holmberg