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When was the last time you said no and felt good about it?  Seriously. When?

Welcome to That’s a Hard No, the podcast about saying no and setting boundaries so you can become the authentic and empowered you that this world needs.

On this podcast, we talk with interesting people about all the different ways we can and should say no, and why it’s so darned hard for most of us to do it. Tune in for inspiring conversations and concrete strategies to help you start saying no to what’s blocking you and make room for good things yet to come.

Meet Our Co-Hosts


Hi there! I’m Heather. I’m a 52-year-old mom of two adult children and a recent cancer survivor. I’m also a small business owner. I head Clever Girl Marketing, in Cleveland, Ohio.

I began focusing on saying no in January of 2019, when I declared it my “Year of No.” I made it my mission to say no at least once every day and learned to overcome fear, guilt, and a whole lot of things that were holding me back. I’m still working on it, but learning to say no has changed my life, and I’m telling everyone I can about it.

I’m so excited to co-host this podcast with my friend and colleague, Sarah Saunders, and can’t wait to talk with our guests and all of you as we learn how to take better care of ourselves and live our best lives.


Meet Our Co-Hosts

Sarah Saunders

Hello! I’m Sarah. I’m a 33-year-old mom of 4 boys, a wife, business owner, and a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor. I’m here to share not only what works in my daily life but also offer evidence-based strategies to get you closer to the personal and professional life you’ve always wanted.

I earned my bachelor’s degree in Psychology and Art Therapy from Indiana Wesleyan University, and my master’s degree in Marriage and Family Therapy from the University of Akron. With my practice, Purposeful Growth & Wellness, I help people of all ages and from all walks of life. I’m excited to talk with you and our guests about all the ways saying no can help us succeed and be our best selves.


sarah saunders ma lpcc | that's a hard no podcast

Latest Episodes


The Power of The Pause

April 9, 2024
Lianna Purjes, LCSW, therapist and Empowerment Coach joins us to talk boundary setting with loved ones who have a substance use disorder and how to build a better life after…

Unpacking Clutter: Setting Boundaries to Simplify

April 2, 2024
Star Hansen, Certified Professional Organizer (CPO©) and Clutter Whisperer joins us to talk about how our clutter may be trying to help us set boundaries we don't even know we…

Assumptions are the Mother of All Failures

March 25, 2024
Tinokuda Bvunzawabaya, someone who wants to redefine what it means to be a man, joins us for a conversation on boundaries and allyship.


You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google, iHeart, and many other podcast platforms. Look for us and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.